Sanctions on you and “Strana” were imposed on the day when they were supposed to impose sanctions on the mayor of Kyiv, Vitali Klitschko. However, they imposed sanctions on us, on the eve of Independence Day. Why was it on that particular day?
- Sanctions were imposed on the 20th of August, I have a birthday on the 19th of August. Such a gift.
- In addition, sanctions were imposed on the eve of Volodymyr Zelensky’s mission to the United States. Do you think that these two occasions are connected?
- Yes, the gift was given twice. The second time – to Biden under the Zelensky’s arrival to the United States. Initially, sanctions, according to Ukrainian legislation, were seen as a mechanism to block the activities of foreign citizens who harm Ukraine, but to which it is impossible to apply the decision of Ukrainian courts. In the interpretation of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine (NSDC), this turned into a usurpation of authority and a mechanism of extrajudicial execution and political pressure.
As for me, the NSDC apparatus is just a group of people who are standing for other people’s financial and their own political and economic interests. In this case, the interests of “strategic partners” are in the first place. At the same time, they bring a local flavor in: they require unlawful corruption benefits, racketeering, crush the opposition. There was a different story during Petro Poroshenko was a president. The United States allowed him to steal, create roving gangs of radicals on call, who kill, beat and persecute journalists and political opponents, and in return, Poroshenko had to give the country under external control.
- Another scheme exists now: the external rulers allowed the current government to work outside the legal field, usurping leadership, substituting the judicial system. And Danilov himself is a proactive, cowardly, narrow-minded bandit.
There is such a child’s game on the Internet. Petri dish. A vessel for the multiplication of micro-organisms. The rules say that microorganisms must eat a lot, otherwise green viruses will attack them and divide them into parts. So, our NSDC is a Petri dish.
Danilov uses the governmental mechanism in order to redistribute other subjects’ assets, aggressive intervention into business, interfere with the press – replacing the judicial and law enforcement agencies. He, just like Gontareva, expects to be in London later. Best case scenario.
- So you think that NSDC sanctions against Ukrainian nationals are imposed with the approval of the United States?
- And not only. Do you think the embassy of strategic partners does not see this? They are allowed to do this. The presidents give them the keys to the country. Not a single scheme that worked under Poroshenko has stopped under Zelensky. Pay attention to the number of Domestic government bonds of Ukraine which were sold with the help of the Minister of Finance Sergii Marchenko, who is close to Andriy Yermak. And we are all paying corruption tax. We are talking about billions, and we are “sold” another forum (speech on the forum YES – Yalta European Strategy).
- What has changed after sanctions had been imposed?
- A bank card on which I received a deputy’s salary was blocked. Recently I went to the Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada, Dmytro Razumkov, and asked how he would pay my salary. Mr Razumkov replied that he was f*cking surprised as well and do not know how to proceed with this.
- Was your office sealed?
- In which way? I’m a People’s Deputy of Ukraine. There is the Constitution, the laws of Ukraine and the Rules of Procedure of the Verkhovna Rada. In addition, the imposition of sanctions against me, like any other Ukrainian, creates a right-wing collapse of the Constitution and laws of Ukraine. I can vote with my card in the hall, but I cannot receive a salary. Here’s a paradox.
In my case, in addition to property rights, my rights as an elected deputy are also violated.
- How we can confront the NSDC sanctions as members of the sanction list?
- To unite. Under Poroshenko, in 2016 we created an inter-factional parliamentary association “Forbidden To Forbid”. At the conciliation board of the factions, Gennady Korban was arrested when the summons was brought to Yuri Boyko. Representatives of the Radical Party and the Freedom Party were arrested … Then I stood up and said that regardless of relations with opponents, it would all end badly. I got up and left, and four leaders of factions, some of the heads of the committees of the Verkhovna Rada, left with me. On the way, we told Volodymyr Groysman, the speaker of the Rada at that time, using profane language, how events would develop further. After that, an inter-factional association of 30 deputies was created. There was no need for it for a while. But recently we decided to restore it.
Today, the authorities violate the basic norms of the Constitution and the fact that a citizen of Ukraine can be limited in rights and found guilty only by a court decision. When Zelensky became president, it seemed to me that this union was not needed, since media people came to power who understand that freedom of speech is a tool that will still be useful to them. And it came in handy when Zelensky became president – the journalists, with their investigations, significantly lowered Poroshenko’s rating. And then Zelensky decided to clean up the media sphere.
And in general, too many bans and repressions have accumulated in Ukraine lately. Therefore, I also suggest that journalists, human rights defenders and lawyers will create a public association. There are enough materials, films, facts that can be documented and drawn up for subsequent later use in Ukraine and beyond.
- There aren’t many journalists left to associate with.
- Actually, there are a lot but people are afraid. Fear is something that any government uses to suppress dissent. Poroshenko was intimidating with stray activists, and under Zelensky, the government intimidates with sanctions and is thinking about employing stray activists.
- Are you aware of what is at the heart of the NSDC sanctions related to you?
We have submitted formal lawyer inquiries, to which there is not and will not be any response. Because there are no facts. They cannot exist: sanctions are political extrajudicial repression.
- Do you believe that you can challenge sanctions in Ukrainian Tribunal? Or you can only rely on the European Court of Human rights, can’t you?
Some of the judges make a huge mistake, not maintain the position, but want to “loop” or “bend over” under illegal decisions. In particular, our association will fight not only against human rights violations but also against corruption. There should be a list of people who make illegal decisions, engaging in political corruption.
It is necessary to collect as many documents and facts of illegal actions of the authorities concerning constitutional human rights as possible. All documents will be declassified sooner or later. Just like in the situation with Mr Poroshenko: I consider him a potential military and state criminal, and one way or another, all his atrocities will be revealed.
- This is not the first time the media have experienced a “clean-up”. This happened in 2016-2017, when they closed, for example, “Channel 17”, they tried to close us. What is giving you hope that everything will end positively this time?
- My life experience. The understanding that this chaos that is taking place in Ukraine now ends unexpectedly as a rule. Unexpectedly for the authorities. There were plenty of such examples.
- Which examples?
- All presidents wanted to change something at the beginning of their activities. They had some kind of mission in their heads, and it all ended with an attempt to crush the Constitution, which led to the next Maidan or the story “stadium is so stadium”. It will not be possible to close online publications, but TV channels have a slightly different situation, since there is an unlimited position of the National Council on Television and Radio Broadcasting, with absolutely insane people who, in my opinion, must answer according to the law.
- Any illegal decision is documented. It is a specific civil servant who violates the law and the Constitution and has a surname and patronymic.
- So you mean that the head of the National council Olga Gerasimyuk will pay a fine someday, won’t she?
- Why only a fine? Not only a fine but also a term for exceeding official powers. And there will be enough witnesses. Knowing those who are in this National Council and its apparatus, many of them will run themselves to give evidence against Gerasimyuk.
- Can you provide the forecast: when will those guilty of pressure on the media be held accountable?
- It happens unexpectedly in Ukraine. Mr Kuchma while giving Kryvorizhstal in 2004 also believed that it would be an eternal family asset. In October 2013, Yanukovych was stronger than ever. Poroshenko also believed that there was no strong opponent on the horizon until Zelensky appeared. And only in the fall of 2018, he realized that the elections would not go in his favor. Then stories with provocations in the Kerch Strait appeared in order to introduce a state of emergency and cancel the elections.
This information will be announced for the first time: in December 2018, Petro Poroshenko planned to send again three border ships with a CNN correspondent to the same Kerch Strait in order to provoke a conflict and, on this basis, introduce a state of emergency and postpone the elections and earn political points from external curators … But, fortunately, at that time the Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Arsen Avakov did not dare to take responsibility for the actions of the hetman. And this story did not work out.
Today the topic with the “Wagner’s men” were discussing – this is a continuation of the same story. This provocation was supposed to take place with the participation of the special services of Ukraine and it is not clear what it could lead to.
It is not known what the reaction and consequences would be if this plane with Russian paramilitary citizens were hijacked and possibly landed. If Zelensky for some reason stopped this process by calling Lukashenko, then as the president he did the right thing. WELL DONE!
They are, like on “Radio Day”, they are all great! And this CNN correspondent is a good fellow who, together with the intelligence officers, is now telling that it is a good thing to land a plane by force and provocation. That is to say, landing a plane with Roman Protasevich is bad, but landing a plane with “Wagner’s men” is good.
But overall, nothing changes. The story of provocations and the use of Ukraine as a red rag for the Russian Federation remains one of the tasks of external control … This was the case under Poroshenko – this continued under Zelensky.
- Who do you think originally owned the “Wagnerian” combination?
- “Wagner’s men” – full-length album for Zelensky & Co. In a manner of speaking, today we see the tip of the iceberg. Partly, this is the part of the US elite scenario to pit Ukraine, Russia and Belarus against each other on the one hand. On the other hand, ” Wagner’s men” are an element of external control, horror stories and a convoy for Yermak and Zelensky. “Now we will show you a series of investigative films, and in two months another episode, and if you misbehave, we will show the whole film.” By the way, films and plots were already shot by September 1. And before the release of the shortcut of CNN, some of the former leaders and employees of military intelligence who participated in Operation Wagner and gave interviews were removed from the territory of Ukraine. At least 25 people. Some of them are still abroad.
- And who is their sponsor?
- Ask this question to our outstanding figures from the NSDC and the Office of the President. They should know for sure.
- Which scandal could be crucial for Zelensky? The story with the “Wagner’s men”, corruption at the “Big Construction”? Which could it be?
- When we are discussing Zelensky, we must understand that he is a conviction! And our country is under external control: the hucksters are allowed to plunder, and they are giving up the control of the country. Zelensky himself only partially has control of the situation.
- Nevertheless, what could become a “black swan” for Zelensky?
- So far, we are not talking about serious protests organized from outside or inside, although in our reality everything is possible. The reason may be different. Today, if there is any “Maidan” in Ukraine, it will be “Maidan of Mayors”. First, the regions were given decentralization, but today they are being put in the stable, forcing them to cover losses from the foreign policy and foreign economic activity of the central government at the expense of local budgets. Today mayors are “bent over”, forcing to cover the price of gas from local budgets, and urban livelihoods cannot be sustained. But the government forgets that each mayor of a large regional city has more than 50% of the rating, his population has elected and now they are supporting him.
- Before the local elections, especially in the middle of the election campaign, the regional elites have shown themselves. They began to be rude, insolent, to oppose the center, but now there is no resistance. Complete neutrality and moderate public policy. It seems that the government has managed to build up relations with all mayors, except Klitschko.
- Do you mean that bypassing Klitschko, new regional congresses were built, led by Ermak, through which regional development funds are handed out for loyalty? Do not worry: when local elites realize that the government is weak, they will emerge at the most critical and inconvenient moment. In Ukraine, this always happens at the most unexpected moment for the authorities.
Everything will “fall down” for sure, it is not clear when, but everyone around, including the oligarchs, on whom he relies and with whom he earns power today, will throw firewood on the fire. Ask Kuchma, Kravchuk, Yanukovych, Poroshenko about this – they all had the same thing.
- It means that regional elites are the main danger for Zelensky, aren’t they?
The main danger for Zelensky is his entourage, the presence of people like Yermak and Danilov in it. If he stays with them and does not fight external control, they will lead him to the Ukrainian Taliban in the center of Europe, which no one will tolerate.
- And who will run away by clinging to the chassis?
- Whoever gets.
- Ukrainian folklore gives different answers to this question. I would like it not to happen. First, there is a conflict within the country, a drop in GDP (Gross domestic product) to 20-25%.
All adequate countries that have the subjectivity and culture of statehood, except ours, in the difficult situation of the coronavirus are not engaged in political repression and the redistribution of financial flows but provide with finance people affected by COVID – the poor, small and medium-sized businesses, up to 25% of budget revenues. They spend a lot on health care and education.
We do it in a completely different way. Up to 30% of the money is spent on law enforcement and war. One president promised to end the war in two weeks, the other simply promised to end it.
The second part of the budget is spent on “laundering, washing, large construction projects”. At the same time, the population sees this, if they do not understand it in point of terms, then they feel that they are not being treated correctly.
- Does the nation feel it for sure?
- The nation sees that prices and tariffs are rising, corruption is blooming, the quality of life is falling. Our president himself said that we have unique anti-corruption structures – both in number and composition.
We are the only country in the world where an official corrupt who is recognized as such by a court decision runs a large anti-corruption body – the National Anti-corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU). We spend 10 times more money on the capture of a criminal than the damage from the crime itself. And the head of NABU Artem Sytnyk himself is spelled out as a separate clause in the agreement between the United States and Ukraine that he is untouchable. We have the only country in the world where NABU is chasing the Security Service of Ukraine (SSU) in a “bobik” and is trying to find out why Chaus ended up in shorts in the Vinnytsia SSU, and not at the NABU.
At the same time, another unique structure is stealing the citizen of Ukraine (Mykola Chaus) on foreign territory under the cries of the prosecutor and the President of Moldova, and then throwing it somewhere in the steppes of Vinnytsia. And before that, the same structure, under the previous president, was illegally exporting him there. The system is unique.
- Your “Era-Media” project was also got under sanctions. In which way would it be working in future?
- The legal work of lawyers is underway on this project. As for the work of “Era-Media”, we have just made an interesting project, a cycle of films “Power and Faith” about the relationship between church and government over 30 years, which was appreciated by the audience. Each president was talking about non-interference in the church and then tried to subordinate it to his political interests. This is all based on facts, materials, documents.
- What is the legal situation with Era-Media now?
- Every government and presidency that touched journalists and “Era-Media” as well ended badly. Historical fact. We are challenging the sanctions in order to continue working based on “Era-Media”. It is impossible to talk about the future if you do not analyze why this happened. Because the pressure on us didn’t start now. Kuchma, and Yanukovych, and Poroshenko, and Alasania (ex-head of the Public Broadcaster), and the supervisory board of UA: Pershy, consisting of “Soros children”, took an active part in this process.
For three years now, they have been spending one and a half billions of taxpayers’ money annually on Public Television, occupying the 27th line in the ratings. By the way, recently a clown-presenter spoke there, ran into the Paralympians: he said that we give them a lot of money. What a shame. People have stepped over themselves, through their pain and are winning medals for Ukraine at the Paralympics games … It’s good that UA: Pershyi is not watched by anyone. We conducted an investigation into how the public broadcaster receives grant money from various states and from the budget, and how it spends and steals.
- How do you evaluate Zelensky’s mission to the United States?
- Each government lives in its fairy tale and realities invented by political strategists. For example, the memorandum on Energoatom, which was signed in the United States … For knowledgeable people, it’s just ridiculous.
First, Energoatom is not subordinate to the Minister of Energy, who signed the memorandum. It, Energoatom, is directly subordinate to the Cabinet of Ministers.
Moreover, in 2007, when I headed Energoatom, we were choosing options for the development and construction of nuclear power units. So there is the expertise of the Ministry of Transport, which says that in order to transport the Westinghouse building, we need to disassemble 22 bridges and 17 viaducts. Even theoretically, it is impossible to bring the Westinghouse building to the territory of the existing construction sites. It does not fit in size. Based on the visit «avatars» are displayed in the form of achievements.
- If you have a chance to plan Zelensky mission to the United States, what was he supposed to talk about so that you would not be ashamed?
- Give us back our money which was stolen from the Ukrainian nation by Pavlo Lazarenko, Viktor Yanukovych and Petro Poroshenko and that works in the jurisdiction of the United States. These are tens of billions of dollars. You can keep all the sanctions if that makes you happy. “Fuck you” with your IMF (International Monetary Fund), like in the movie “Servant of the People”, stop poking around in our church, history, politics, selling reforms and building a parody of democracy. Because this story will eventually collapse. How it collapsed wherever they tried to export “democracy” and mythical values. This is what I can say. But indeed, as Zelensky admitted, when a person enters the presidency, the sense of reality fades.
- This is a deep topic. Authority is an element of temptation. The feeling of power gives a feeling of permissiveness. But when you get into power several times, you understand that power is finite. Now they don’t understand it. It is impossible to explain when a person is sitting in a marble office, in gold and ruching.
Imagine that a personal driver every day tells you that the car will not go without you; the secretary says that nothing works without you. The ambience licks the remnants of critical thinking and doubt, talking about the future Nobel Peace Prize. And you look at yourself in the mirror and think that it is.
- Why don’t you admit that the day looks different? Brush your teeth, open the Internet, and there: Volodymyr Zelensky is bad, Andriy Yermak is bad, everything piles on from all sides, and you think: where it was going to land?
- It also happens. After all, self-love is always mutual. People always calm themselves: I’m not as bad as all these bastards write about me.
- But if it is true?
- I have not met people who were not subject to temptation, being in power. There are simply people who cope with this because of their education, upbringing and attitude to life.
- Can you provide an example of a person who gained power, behaved with dignity?
- I can. These are Oleksandr Moroz, Anatoliy Kinakh, Valeriy Pustovoitenko… In many instances the same Mykola Azarov.
- Why they? Are these people who behaved ascetic, did not steal, put the interests of the state above their own?
- There is such a concept – statesman. They did not care what was happening in a particular village with an ordinary person. It is important. Is it possible to live on the minimum wage and pension? This is the result of our economic and foreign policy activities of the authorities. Ukraine recently celebrated 30 years of independence. The country has never reached the GDP level of 1991, the economy and industry are broken.
There is not a single country along the perimeter with which we have normal relations. We are all in conflict. Even this year with Moldova and Belarus.
- President Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the Yalta Forum (YES) admitted that the post of head of state affects his psychological health. Said that sometimes he loses his sense of humanity and reality. How can you comment on this statement?
- It is not surprising, taking to account that today the state is led by the Head of the president office, Andriy Yermak, Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Oleksii Danilov, and external administration. But the statement is not as interesting as the Yalta conference.
- What’s with her?
- This is a panopticon of foreign tourists and journalists who come for money, listeners in the form of celebrities, “Soros children” and activists, and partly people who robbed Ukraine. Which have not created anything, but ended up in the right place at the right time. And after that, they make some statements, set themselves up as an example of success for the younger generation, invite Mr Zelensky as president to this event.
Who are the participants of this forum?
There is no need to talk about Victor Pinchuk, you can recall a huge number of stories: starting from Delta Bank to the sale of wheels at a triple price to “Ukrzaliznytsia”.
There is also a partner of the Biden family in the Burisma company, which has cheated Ukraine for millions, Oleksandr Kvasnevsky.
Amos Hochstein, a former member of the Supervisory Board of “Naftogaz”, is also having a speech there. Thanks to his creative activity, together with Andrey Kobolev (ex-head of the board of “Naftogaz”), the corruption tax on our citizens amounted to 50 euros from the so-called reverse Russian gas. Billions of funds were stolen from Ukrainian citizens through an inflated tariff.
In addition to the loot, they were not ashamed to receive millions of awards from the state of Ukraine. And today their former colleague Yurii Vitrenko, the current head of “Naftogaz” of Ukraine, comes and says that the loss of “Naftogaz” from previous activities amounted to 105 billion – here are the effective managers, here are the supervisory boards with foreign tourists, and here are the triple prices for gas for the population.
Think about this cynicism: they are robbing us, but we have to praise them for this on the forums, show them on TV. I analyze the consequences of events. What are US sanctions?
50% of the world’s financial assets are owned by the United States. The main ideology of the part of the “Washington swamp” and the globalists is to keep this 50% and prevent redistribution towards other countries. And the whole story about freedom, values, democracy in their understanding is a necklace that they are trying to sell to the Papuans. Have you heard a lot of statements by liberal democratic leaders and embassies condemning the sanctions against Strana.ua?
- Statements were coming from Europe, OSCE.
- But they did not line up in your defense, as for Shabunin, Suprun or Kobolev. The task of a part of the corrupt US elite is to protect the opportunity to earn money on foreign territory and preserve their capital.
- Specify how is it connected to the sanctions?
When did the political sanctions against me arise? When we showed how Yanukovych and his accomplices robbed the Ukrainian people with the help of an outstanding banker Valeria Gontareva. She is now hiding in London. Then the Vice President of the United States stood up for her, they say, do not touch the outstanding banker.
We began to show schemes for earning money on the territory of Ukraine and not just schemes, but films, cards, bank statements, the DemoCorruption table. The first thing that the Internet tried to “kill” after the US sanctions was this scheme. Because the Papuans should not know how their older brother rips them off. They have to go to Yalta conferences and take pictures with the prominent KGB agent “Valery” Viktor Pinchuk, who financed the Hillary Foundation. US sanctions are a mechanism to protect the interests of their legal and, in particular, illegal business in foreign territory, including the use of international technical assistance funds (money of American taxpayers). And this is about 7 billion US dollars.
- What does such cooperation in activities and sanctions lead to?
- This leads to a crisis of people’s confidence in the authorities, and ultimately in the country. 80% of the Ukrainian population is dreaming that their children leaving the country. Is this the result of the authorities’ activities over 30 years? It’s sad, but it’s true. We are turning into a country of guest workers who create GDP for other countries. A country of IT specialists who are connected with Ukraine only by payments for tariffs. The worst thing is not NSDC sanctions.
- But what is the worst thing?
- The authorities are imposing sanctions on the future by their actions. Those generations who want to live and raise their children here now. And the fact that another zoologist and a shopboy are showing off in the regime of racketeers over smugglers and cashiers is local folklore. But at the same time, the collective West sees all of this, permits and encourages, under the comment “let’s fight corruption”. Well, let’s do it.
- A good example is parliamentary salaries in envelopes, which “Strana” has repeatedly exposed. Nevertheless, the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine did not open a criminal proceeding on the fact of our publications. Why do you think?
- This does not mean that they did not document, and the country’s chief anti-corruption officer did not send this data to the US Embassy. And there this information is accumulated for the right moment.
- For what?
- To lead them on a leash, or to have them vote on the needed laws. Or when it comes to fighting corruption right away, they will get these facts out of the drawer.
- When will the NSDC take a wrong turn?
- If Zelensky does not remove Ermak and Danilov, then the situation will continue to go downhill. But sooner or later Zelensky has to understand that he is fighting the wrong ones. After all, his main opponent is Poroshenko. As well as the opponent of the whole country.
- Poroshenko clearly understands that he will never become the president of the entire Ukraine. But in a certain situation, he can provoke a split in the country and become the president of a part of Ukraine.
- Under Poroshenko, the entire law enforcement machine worked endlessly on repression, against our publication as well. There were not only sanctions but also restrictions on personal freedom – as in the case of Igor Guzhva, who was thrown into prison. And nevertheless, Petro Poroshenko is free and has not suffered any punishment for this. Is there any reason to believe that Zelensky will be punished for his sanctions machine?
- Poroshenko is under the patronage of a system of international corruption and lobbying that makes money in Ukraine. He can not be imprisoned when you said: “I am your verdict” at the stadium. As a result, Petro Poroshenko may become Zelensky’s verdict.
- Do you think he can?
- Petro Poroshenko? Due to his experience, abilities and billions of dollars in financial resources, as well as in the presence of a lobbyist roof, he can arrange this.
But the hope is that a sense of self-preservation will allow Zelensky to fulfill his threat of “a verdict is a verdict.” And if he is really “tired”, as he said on YES, then it is a good time to liquidate the presidency in Ukraine as a prize and establish a parliamentary republic.
What I am sure of is that Ukraine and its nation always have a chance for a normal life.